In the end, nobody wins the culture wars, says journalist Monica Guzman. The key to transcending these conflicts is to become curious rather than confrontational — to reframe the us/them confusion with complexity. Guzman also urges us to reject the easy answers — the sense of certainty many of us feel that we have all of the answers and they don’t.

Becoming curious means we must become better listeners. Real listening demonstrates that we really understand and care about what others are thinking, Guzman says. Too often we’re only interested in conveying what we believe and trying to win arguments. When we listen, people begin to open up and to take risks, and that’s when real progress can be made.

Brown had no intentions of battling his parents over their anti-LGBTQ views until, that is, he viewed a viral video of his mother demanding that a local school board in Texas remove library books that she considered pornographic or that promoted LGBTQ themes. She also urged the Board to have a local pastor decide which books should remain in the schools’ libraries.

In this episode, Brown describes the painful estrangement from his parents and siblings and why he decided to speak out against his mother’s efforts to ban books in public school libraries.

Lawmakers in some states have enacted new policies that prevent or discourage teachers from discussing current events, controversial topics, and in some cases to study anything that causes students to feel “uncomfortable.” Others believe schools are an important place for students to learn about the events that impact their lives, their communities, and their country and that teachers can (and should) do this in a non-partisan manner.

In this podcast interview, Amanda Ripley suggests ways to respond to the “conflict entrepreneurs” that are fueling the culture wars in education, and she explains what it will take to shift from “high conflict”—the kind that wreaks havoc on relationships and public discourse—to “healthy conflict” that schools and all of our public institutions need to thrive.