Political Opposites Square Off on Schools, Gender, and Sexuality (Ep. 11)

Jan 23

Episode Notes

What role should schools play when it comes to gender and sexuality? What books should students have access to? What topics should teachers and students be able to discuss? What kind of support should LGBTQ students be able to expect from their schools?

These questions have become the focus of intense debate among parents, educators, students, and policy makers. Not surprisingly, conversations among those who disagree are seldom civil or productive. Board meetings have devolved into war zones, and battle lines are being drawn as parents are being told their rights are being violated. As the culture wars rage on, it is hard to imagine how anyone (save the few who simply relish conflict) would think the toxic conflicts playing out in our schools are a good thing for our students or our country.

I wanted to find out if the use of some depolarizing strategies might make it possible to host a civil conversation about schools, gender, and sexuality with political opposites and even to find some common ground.

My first guest, Willie Carver, is an openly gay, veteran high school teacher who was selected as Teacher of the Year for the state of Kentucky in 2021. Mr. Carver (whom I interviewed in October 2022) quit because of the harassment he and some of his colleagues received from a small group of parents.

My second guest, Dov Fischer, is a law professor, an orthodox Jewish rabbi, and a political conservative. In a 2022 editorial in California’s Orange County Register, Fischer spoke out against policies that allow students to designate their gender identities. In Fischer’s view, this is yet another effort by the government to divide families, and he thinks parents, not educators, should be the ones to mentor children on matters of gender.

Tune in to find out what happens!

Featured Guests:

Willie Carver

Willie Carver is the 2022 Kentucky Teacher of the Year. He is a poet, author, speaker, and advocate. His book of narrative poems, Gay Poems for Red States, explores the damage we do LGBTQ children when the places and people they love reject them before knowing who they are. His writing has appeared in Good River Review, Council Chronicle, the Herald-Leader, AFT Voices, the Courier-Journal, Ed Post, and is forthcoming in On Board, 100 Days in Appalachia, Largehearted Boy Blog, and more. He has been featured in or on Courageous Conversations About Our Schools, CBS, ABC, Education Weekly, NPR, and Le Monde. Above all, he is a teacher who believes that ordinary students can change the world in extraordinary ways.

Rabbi Dov Fischer

Rabbi Dov Fischer, Esq., is Vice President of the Coalition for Jewish Values (comprising over 2,000 Orthodox rabbis), was an adjunct professor of law at two prominent Southern California law schools for nearly 20 years, and is Rabbi of Young Israel of Orange County, California. He has held leadership roles in several national Jewish organizations. His writings have appeared in Newsweek, the Wall Street Journal, the New York Post, the Los Angeles Times, the Federalist, National Review, the Jerusalem Post, and Israel Hayom. Other writings are collected at rabbidov.com.

Related Reading & Viewing:

"When Students Change Gender Identity, and Parents Don’t Know” by Katie J. M. Baker, New York Times

“Now, only parents can defend parents’ rights in our public schools” by Rav Dov Fischer, Orange County Register

Testimonials:

“Episode 11 is a fantastic example of how powerful it can be to get underneath the usual talking points of a culture war and start to glimpse the personal fears and worries at the heart of these debates.

I love the way Ken very explicitly and transparently revealed his own opinions, promised to ask questions of all sides, and then walked us through the techniques he was using to facilitate the conversation--right out in the open.

The two guests did a remarkably good job listening to each other and trying to understand each other---without pretending as they agreed. I felt "smarter" after listening to this podcast, and I don't say that everyday.”

- Amanda Ripley, Journalist & Author of High Conflict

“This is what Mr. Carver had to say about being part of this episode of Courageous Conversations about our Schools: “I spoke with Rabbi Dov in this episode. I thought we were on two sides of a political spectrum. Instead, I saw in him a human being, wounded just like me. I saw two men trying to protect the people around them with broken tools.”

- Willie Carver, 2022 Kentucky Teacher of the Year and Author of Gay Poems for Red States

About the Show:

Courageous Conversations About Our Schools is a podcast that brings people together for respectful conversations about today’s most contentious issues affecting our schools.

Host, Ken Futernick

Courageous Conversations About Our Schools is hosted by Ken Futernick. Ken also hosts Teacher Stories, a podcast about the profound impact so many teachers have on their students and communities. Teacher Stories produced a special series of episodes on the question, What can schools do to help save our democracy?

Ken is an experienced moderator, a teacher educator, and a long-time advocate for collaboration and civil dialogue.

He is the author of the book, The Courage to Collaborate - the Case for Labor-Management Collaboration in Education.

Please feel free to send comments and questions to ken@schoolconversations.org.